Hanging out, ready to sing some Blues

Monday, September 29, 2008

Ed Sander's Cross Clinic, Cougar Fest, and Camp!

While Goose is now doing normal weekend things, gunnar and I are valiantly trying to keep our Fan entertained. This weekend we helped out at cross clinic given by The Applegates (Carapp LeGate!) (yes, the same Applegates that have cruelly made us suffer on our tandumb) at the Ed Sander Memorial cross race at the Lilypons.

I think this is one of the coolest races of the year, because I keep hoping somebody will fall in one of the ponds. Didn't happen this weekend, but I suspect it will sooner or later and I sure as heck better be around for it. Anyhow, the clinic was great fun and we met some enthusiastic clinic participants that I am looking forward to cheering for throughout the season. I am hoping they will do as we said, and not as we do, for the simple reason that the CycleDumb training program is really not for everybody...

Anyhow, NCVC and Lilypons was kind enough to let us camp out on the grounds on Sat. night. They even had a nice pavilion to shelter us from the rains. I must admit that I was having second thoughts about camping, on account of as soon as the gates were slammed shut, the heavens opened, Jackie found playmates in the form of a snake (dead) and a frog (live), and the mosquitoes called in all their starving distant relatives to feast upon the Shogren's bodies.

What's for dinner, Nars?

However, it turned out to be a lovely peaceful quiet night, and it was interesting to stumble out of bed in the morning to see the whole race preparation unfold. (Especially when Ken Getchell is setting up his PA equipment right above your head.)

Is that you out there, Ken?

CougarFest, 2008. Also the site of the Shogren's camping adventure.
Notice the placement of Ken.

The race itself was just fine, although gunnar and I are in the painful process of switching from 9 hour races to 45 minute races. We'll get there, though, and if we don't, at least we'll look good racing our beautiful new Cannondales.

Gunnar bringing home the goods, earlier in the week.

Yes, I know, we need to get some better pictures of our new bikes! We really heart these bikes!

Well, Fan, the latest news is in. It sounds like Goose might be out there racing this weekend! YAHOO! We here at CycleDumb Training are most proud.

Don't call it a come back...

Well fan I went to the orthopedic specialist today. He did indeed confirm that I have two broken bones in my wrist. He also noticed the pins/screws in my thumb from last season but he also noticed that I must of broken my wrist two other times. I swear I have only broken my wrist one other time or at least I have only been casted one other time years ago. Perhaps I need to ask mom but then of course I would have to tell her about my current injury. Oh well!!

Any how, the doc said that these two bones are non-bearing so he gave me the option since I am an "adult" to have a brace instead of a cast since being an "adult" I would behave. Yeh, I am an "adult' so of course I chose the brace, I'll behave. He also told me that I could begin riding in 3-4 weeks with the brace on and that I could probably start racn' soon after depending on how much pain I can endure. Well, that was about 4 hours ago and I have already ridden an hour and going by this Cycle Dumb accelerated time frame I think I may try racn' the Hagerstown CX race this weekend. Besides CX, this race has a BMX course, a skate park and OUTLAW CHEERLEADERS how could I really resist, right? I have had erotic dreams as a teen that have included all those things, ok more recently. Besides, I have a great excuse if I do shitty, hell I have two broken bones in my wrist right.

I know many are worried about the current economic crisis, however, I suggest you buy stock in Advil. I will popping a lot in the coming weeks I am sure.

"May the wind be always at your back. May the sun shine warm upon your face" and may your wheels always find it safely back to the ground.


Thursday, September 25, 2008

Cheap at Twice the Price

Yes, folks, for the bargain price of, uh, apparently just $14.99, you too can have gunnar's bum grace your website

Mountain State Road Classic! (again)

We are certainly sorry to hear that Goose is down and out. Hang in there, Goose. I wouldn't worry about the muffin tops too much.

Meanwhile, things are just swell here in W-bG-V. Look how giddy we all were on Sunday at the state RR championships! It was a right jolly old time.

Just look how happy all these folks are!

gunnar's happy because he won again.

Bunny's happy because she has tough grrrls to race with (Laura and Siera).

Kyle, 40 + state champ and happy he didn't use his 9 speed wheel on his 10 speed drivetrain equipped bike.

Josh, fellow NIOSH employee and happy he didn't hit the mailbox last Wed.

I don't even know who this guy is, but he sure looks happy about something. (editor's note- he's a acquaintance/buddy from my old home town, Clearfield PA, and he shows up to a few WVMBA races now and again. Or course he's happy!)

Siera's Dad flew in from California on the red-eye and jumped right on a bike (and finished!) Way to go, Dad!

Even Killer is happy, chewing on some old socks.

So, folks, the road season draws to a close. Many thanks to the folks that made it happen, including, but not limited to: JR Petsko, Thad and Sarah Kelley, Mike Holt, Mike Miller, Ryan Post, and all you who came out and raced!
Some good suffering was certainly inflicted during these road races, and that's the way we like it.

Actually written by Bunny...

Wednesday, September 24, 2008

Is it Hunting Season?

One sad Chrissy!!!

Well fan, my Cross season has come to a screeching halt for the second season in row. I took a pretty hard training crash in Rock Creek Park, AGAIN!! This time the culprit was not some hooligan with a rope but a deer jumping out as I was doing my last of several hard efforts. The end result a shit load of road rash and two broken bones in my wrist and hand. Yup, the same hand I had surgery on less then year ago. Which incidentally ended last years cross season. F&%K!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It was a good MTB season though. I was on the podium in all of the 30+ races I entered except two. I took 1st in WVMBA SS series and 3rd in the NUE SS National series so I shouldn't be too down. But I am. I do not idle well. So maybe a late November come back if the Doc's let me. If not, next season it will have to be. In the mean time, some professional pitting and heckling for my Team Bi-atch mates the Shogren's....some weekends! I guess I need a cow bell now too.

Now what do I do? Ugh!!! I guess watch Dumb-Shit speak tonight but look the cable is out too. Just my luck!! F$#K!!!!!!!!!!!!

I hope I can keep my muffin-top from growing too large!! F&#K!!!!!!

"May the wind be always at your back. May the sun shine warm upon your face" and may your wheels always find it safely back to the ground.


Sunday, September 21, 2008

Cross Opener for Chrissy :(

Charm City MAC #2
I rode like poop and now I am grumpy.
Gunnar knows I am grumpy so the insults have been limited.
But they will come I am sure.
This is also the first Sunday in months that I am not on the road traveling until 1am from some race event. And TV stinks and I am too tired to read now I am even more grumpy.
I have cross gut and lungs too, more grump.
Gunnar and Betsy won today though. Good work team.

Off to the Races!

Notice it is the first MAC weekend.  Notice the Shogren's aren't there!  This is the first MAC race we've missed in 5 years for me, and probably 7-8 years for gunnar. There are many reasons for our absence, which we may or may not get into on this blog.  

Instead, we will be racing the glorious Mountain State Road Classic, a race that should not be missed if it can be at all helped.  Of all the crippling WV road races this summer, I might venture to say this one is the most crippling.  You also might recall that quite a few years back a rumor was spread that gunnar would help some girl out for a kiss.  While this was just a rumor, apparently the girl in question is still quite sore about it, as evidenced by the incredulous lecture I received from the aforementioned woman at the Joe Martin Stage Race last year.    Let's just say she was quite appalled when she heard my last name was Shogren.  

Anyhow, a full race report will follow, including all kissing that goes on during the race.  See all the fun that goes on during a WV RR!?  Now you understand (one reason) why we are missing the first MAC weekend!

Saturday, September 20, 2008

Sleepn' til noon!!

It is the first Saturday since April that this Bi-atch is not some where else or getting ready to go some where else for some sort of race. It does feel nice not to be in a rush to make it to some starting line some where but admittedly I am a little antsy especially with the first MAC race is starting today less then 3 hours away from the DC CX headquarters. I felt like total crap in last weekends Coppi RR and my body was screaming at me for a break. It has been a long however pretty successful season so a Saturday of rest and coffee will be just fine. The Director advised it and made it a mandate for Bunny and I. It's going to be a long Cross season too so some rest will do the body good.

Don't worry fan there is plenty of racn' for you to come out to though, I believe new daddy and Bi-atch member Mike Y. will be racn' up in the MAC season opener, Bunny and the Director will be finishing up the WV road series tomorrow and I will be hitting the second MAC race over in the Charm City tomorrow too. So plot your course on your GPS unit and come cheer us on.

Happy belated talk like a Pirate Day!!! This is the Director's favorite holiday of the year. I am sure Betsy is glad it is over.

Also, word has it the Director is in negotiations with some anonymous fella that is kinda fast that just came out of retirement. This fast fella was so impressed with the Directors old Diamond Back team mate, Dave Wiens, beating him at the Leadville 100 that he too wants some of the Directors knowledge. Perhaps we will have a chance in France again. Floyd, Cadel, Dave, Mike Y., Bunny, Goose and young Freddie who may be next...

Our Director!!!

Time for some more coffee, NPR and to think about riding. Oh, I am sorry for the lack of new photo's but my comp and camera are not getting along so I am unable to down load photo's but here is an ole-fav. There is some devise I can buy but who knows how long that will take for me to purchase.

"May the wind be always at your back. May the sun shine warm upon your face" and may your wheels always find it safely back to the ground.


Sunday, September 14, 2008

As it was in the beginning..., Part II

Photos and results are HERE.  You should look at the pictures, because it was such a neat day to ride in the woods.  

In the first race of the season, gunnar did an extra 7 miles and I beat him. teehee. In yesterday's last race of the season, he did an extra 12 miles, and I beat him again. teehee. (I know that's mean, but if you know gunnar, you know I've gotta take what I can get.)

The race was 38 miles of infamous Big Bear singletrack, followed by 12 miles of "jeep roads." I do believe many people suffered more on those jeep roads than in the whole previous 38 miles. They were pretty gnarly, indeed, but darn near perfect for a singlespeed 29'er, especially of the Cannondale variety. gunnar was privledged enough to do about 24 miles of jeep roads, a consequence of missing a turn, and then following arrows for the previous week's Poker Run. ooopeee.

Ma and Pa Shogren were about to head out into the woods to look for the MIA gunnar.

I am soooo happy I raced. I felt like extreme crud in the morning (that darn sore throat did not make itself scarce as I had hoped) and the smart part of me said not to race. But, as you can probably guess, the cycle-dumb side of me took over, and I figured I might as well be miserable riding a bike instead of being miserable at home while my friends are out cavorting around in the woods. Besides, I had all day Sunday to be sick. So, I raced and as I cruised through the misty pines, I definitely knew I had made the right decision. And, here it is Sunday, and I've spent most of the day like this:

At least I have good company!

Our buddy FatBoy did splendidly, and although he didn't get to finish the final 12 miles of Jeep Roads, he was still riding strong and happy. And that's the important thing!

Good Job, JR!!!! We're looking forward to more races with you next year.

And so, the mountain bike season comes to a close. sniff sniff. Thank you very much to Rob and Matt and the other fine folks of Sobe-Cannondale for helping to make it such a fun and successful season.

Our bikes certainly served us well throughout many many miles, and we will no doubt put many more miles on them this winter. But first, here's a hint of what's next...

Friday, September 12, 2008

As it was in the beginning...

So shall it be at the end. Unfortunately, in this case, that refers to wet and sloppy, just as it was at the first race of the season (Mountwood). Hopefully it will not be too cold, though. Tomorrow is the Big Bear Ultra, one of our favorite races, and a fine race with which to end the mountain bike season. And, it is only 50 miles-- downright short! We are supposed to be camping right now, but a) it's raining, and b) somebody came down with a sore throat today at work. So, we'll just be up bright and early and that pesky sore throat can just show itself to the door, thank you very much.

Also, send some good vibes to FatBoy, PickleMan, or whatever other nom de plume you know JR as. He is going to race this race (his longest race by far), and we have a special surprise for him !!

JR, we will have this confectionary masterpiece waiting for you at the finish line!!!

Thursday, September 11, 2008

There is a season...Turn, Turn, Turn!!

(editor's note, not all of us are throwing in the towel on MTB racing!
Nars, Bunny, and PickleMan are all racing the Big Bear Ultra Saturday!!)

Well Fan, last weekend was the final WVMBA series race, The Dirt Derby. This was a pretty cool course to ride on a singlespeed but SUCKED to race on a SS. It was a "controlled" road start (which seemed like 10 miles) that was absolutely painful and horrible for we SS kids. Followed by a wicked fast "very" single track section. This section was fine for an SS but by the time we hit the woods most of we SS kids had spun out and were trying to stay in front of the beginner class. So passing was hard, at times dangerous but had to be done. I absolutely buried myself in the first 30 minutes trying to chase down the overall leaders when finally sketchy Johny M. caught me at the top of a hike-a-bike as the steam was blowing out my ears, ugh!! I let him go thinking we had three laps, I was tired and I typically can reel Johny in after 2 hours. I continued trucking along passing the sport class guys and finally catching most of the pro/ex field. I was joined by fellow SS friend Joey R. for a bit but he disappeared after after a few miles. It was good to see him out there since this was the place he had that bad crash last year.

I kept chugging along. I was told that I was gaining on Johny half way through lap two. Sweet I thought, I will catch him soon enough after we start lap three. Nope, as I began the road climb to start lap 3 I was told to turn at the top toward the finish line. Oops, I guess the prologue thingie was lap 1 so I never caught Johny and ended up 2nd...still in the money at least and won the SS WVMBA series too.

With this being the WVMBA series final if you were hoping to place in the series you had to do this race since it was added to all your points. I was one point behind Benji going in so it was going to come down who beat who for first. It was surely going to be an exciting race between he and I, however, I am sad to report that Benji's son re-entered the hospital just days before the race so he was unable to attend. I truly did not want to win the series under these circumstances. Some of we SS kids were willing to amend the series rules some to allow Benji to keep his 1st and for me to keep my 2nd since mathematically no one could pass us in points if both Benji and I were there racing no matter how bad we did. So a race for 3rd!! A vote was taken and not everyone agreed to this, democracy at work I suppose, so in the end I have won the SS WVMBA series in a bitter sweet manner as I was looking forward to a hard day in the saddle of knocking elbows with Benji for the series win. Benji still held on to 5th, good work sir. We at Team Bi-atch hope your family and young Sammy are doing well. Next year we will do it again with Sammy cheering you on brother.

So that was the end of the MTB/Road season, kind of, we still will be hitting a few MTB and RR in the coming weeks but no more points or series will be chased until cross starts in a few weeks.

Bi-Atchs heart their Cannondales.

This is the turning point of a very long but very successful season and we Bi-atch's end this chapter with 3 series podium slot's in the WVMBA series and two in the NUE series. Not bad, not bad at all. That cycle dumb training really works.

Betsy: 1st Pro WVMBA, 2nd Women NUE Series
Gunnar: 3rd Pro WVMBA (even without those Mountwood points AND getting a flat at the finals!), winner of TWO SS NUE races!
Me, Chris: 1st SS WVMBA and 3rd SS NUE Series

So, it's time to re-glue some cross tyres and to practice some dismounts. See ya at the MAC and MABRA cross races fan.

Thanks and shout outs:
- JR for making WVMBA happen and for quiting smoking, you rock!
- cyclingnews.com for feeding our or my narcissism
- Uncle Rob and Cannondale for some great bikes and gear
- Gunnar and Betsy for being good friends, travel mates, competition, Bi-atch mates and weekend roommates
- to all the hardy WVMBA soul's that come out every weekend making this labor of love all worth it

The Tandumb won the Clydesdale class!

"May the wind be always at your back. May the sun shine warm upon your face" and may your wheels always find it safely back to the ground.

Peace Chris
(editor's note- sniff, sniff)

Sunday, September 7, 2008

Fine where we were-

Dirt Derby, WVMBA Series Final

But maybe not where we would have like to have been-
Sierra Tahoe 100 ($$$!) Miler

Woulda, shoulda?, coulda?
"It's too late, wake up."

Maybe next year guys...

But for now we only got one more MTB race-
Big Bear Ultra

And then Cross season.
But at least we're ending the MTB season wanting more!


Motivation is considerably less than it has been for quite some time.
The troops are seriously reconsidering their dedication and need to get up, get eating, get packed, and get on the road at this unGawdly hour.
Rolling out of the tent and racing in the butt-early AM is one thing, traveling is one very different other.

"They don't have the results up yet for the Tahoe 100 miler".
"My knee feels better", says Betsy, after the deamon dog Jackie whacked into her yesterday.

That's all we got.

Saturday, September 6, 2008

One last time..or is it?

It's a very dreary ugly day in DC as Hanna pounds the right coast with some needed moisture and DCians wait for the knock out punch from Ike not the Tina Turner Ike but the storm sometime in the next 24 hours. I, as usual will be getting out of dodge and heading to Mo-town to get ready for the last WVMBA series race hopefully in time for beer, Blackbear and hopefully a Bunny movie pick...Gunnar always picks movies that came out before Betsy and I were alive, sorry Director! And Yes fan, we should be in Tahoe but we aint so here we go. And yes fan, our motivation is lacking the normal zeal. We are all tired at Team Bi-atch and I am certainly moving slow this morning...almost afternoon. I wish the van would pack itself and I need to spin the legs on the rollers too, ugh. Is five cups of coffee excessive? I certainly hope not.

I am looking forward to switching gear's, literally and figuratively as the coming Cross season approaches. The training changes and decreases, the travel is less( for me at least as I live in the non-New England east coast Cross promise land) and the races are only an hour not 8+. I hope I can find my top end again. I will also be able to spend some time with an old special friend that is a new special friend. Sleep in my own bed most weekends and all that other non-traveling stuff. But I love the travel and the lyfe...

Time for cup 6.
Fan, see ya at the Dirt Derby or if Hanna has her way the MUD Derby.

...hang tough young Sammy we will all have you in our thoughts.

Friday, September 5, 2008

Meet... The An1mal

(ed. note, I call him Lug)

This is Fred.

Fred recommends not racing in sleeves, as they just rip off anyway.

He is a recent convert to the CycleDumb Training program. I'm proud to say his newfound blatant disregard for proper rest, prerace nutrition, and appropriate arrival time to races has led to both a PR in the John Bryan Fast Laps series, and a 3rd place finish in the Clydesdale Division in the OH State Mt. Bike Championships. Yes, my friends, Fred understands that the best warm-up stems from the adrenaline-soaked panic of being late to a race, or even perhaps the sprint from the bushes as the promoter says GO.

Getting back to his third place finish.... during the course of the race (and while leading, I might add), Fred broke a few teeth off his brand-new cassette and snapped a chain. Fortunately, Fred always carries a premeasured brand-new spare chain, as apparently he snaps chains quite a bit... Unfortunately, when this second chain subsequently snapped (after regaining the lead), his derailleur also ate sh*t and Fred was forced to singlespeed. It didn't take long for his chain to jump up to a higher cog, though, and then the bottom bracket froze completely. Fortunately Fred also subscribes to the CD motto of "Never, Ever, Ever Quit," so he pedalled with all his might, and actually didn't finish all that far behind first place. At the finish, there was not a female there that could turn Fred's cranks over.

Fred enjoys the fruits of his labor, but I'm sure he wouldn't mind some cold hard cash to help replace his entire drive train and BB.

I guess Fred is known as "The Animal" for a reason. You may have also heard him referred to as "The Tree Killer" in certain circles, too. Fred's next race is the International Clydesdale XC Championship in KY on Sept. 28th. Best of luck, Fred!!! gunnar offers up these words of advice: "Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail."

Rest assured, Fred is not just all brawn and no brain. Heck no, we here at CD Training won't stand for just dumb jocks. We try to just be dumb when it comes to, uh, cycling.

Fred is also the brain behind this project:

http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=12876 which currently resides in the lobby of the Air Force Museum at Wright-Patterson AFB in Dayton, OH.

Fred recommends sending somebody to go register for you when you are running late.
Maybe Team Bi-atch needs to get one of these...

Tuesday, September 2, 2008

I am going back to Cali, to Cali...

Well fan, we have yet again surprised our selves. We have found ourselves in this interesting situation: Much to my surprise, I find myself tied for first with Fuzzy in SS NUE Series, Gunnar "the come back kid (old man)" Shogren has rallied and could bounce us both out of first ( and me probably down to 4th, hey wait!!) and Besty can lock up 2nd and would love a rematch with the always happy Cheryl S.

Now we need to get back to Cali to Cali...

So fan we are looking for donations for the trip to the finals in the Tahoe 100 out in Cali. This bike racing and teaching thing doesn't pay as well as I had hoped. So as we speak the Director is setting up a Paypal account for us.

Thanks ahead of time.

LL Cool Jay is our motivation.

Please Welcome Pickle Man

To the fiend Family of Inspirational Blogs!!

AKA JR Petsko
AKA Fatboy Bikes
AKA our favorite newest non-Smoker
AKA this whole list that he uses on his email signature-
J.R. Petsko

Nature's Essence Photography

Head Photographer
iPlayOutside, Inc.

Exec. Director
West Virginia Mountain Bike Association

P.O Box 660
Davis, WV 26260

Nice change from "Ex. Director" there JR...

And what he lacks in spell check and word usage he *more* than makes up for in friendliness, helpfulness, goodness, and exuberance. Whew, seems like I have a man-crush...

He's been there and doin' it.
And good for us all that he is.

Monday, September 1, 2008

The Shenandoah Mountain 100

We are back from a killer weekend down in Harrisonburg, Va. and yes this Bi-atch has some killer aches and pains. Fan, it was an awesome event. Chris and his crew put on an amazing festival that included 500+ racers. Not to be out of character I rolled up to the starting line with about a minute to spare and to see how deep the field went back was quite impressive and intimating as I got to line up on the front row. WOW!!!

The race...

We took off with little warning which was a little confusing especially since the moto guy's also weren't ready nor did they have their bikes running, oops! I hit the first climb near the front with Gunnar being the only other single speeder in front of me. Now fan you know I believe 7am is only good for sleeping or going to bed so I was not feeling that great going up the first climb at all. My stomach was all twisted and my HR was off the charts but surprisingly I had "legs" so I was able to chug along keeping Gunnar in sight.

After about an hour I finally woke up and began to feel right which was good as I had a race on my hands. Gunnar was up the road a bit and I found myself amongst 7 or 8 of fastest single speed guys around. Gaps were made and bridged for the first 40 miles. After checkpoint #3 I jumped on the wheel of some fast geared guys on this long stretch of road and got a pretty good gap then set my sights on bridging up to Gunnar. I set tempo up the "soul crusher" climb with some tough geared guys and as I crested the top JR let me know I was only 4 minutes behind the old man. Ahh yeh, it was on and time to bury myself chasing. I dropped my geared chum's and the chase began...until flat number 1 around mile 77. I fixed it fast and got passed only by one geared guy. Refocused and determined I began the chase in earnest. Twenty two minutes later another flat, ugh! This one didn't change as smoothly, I was frustrated and shit Rich "dicky" Dillen a fast SS kid caught me. Now I was in third and I was pretty darn tired to have to go chase down two people but I did. I passed Dicky and got about a minute gap on him but decided to stop at the last aid station so I could get an extra tube and to use the floor pump as my CO2 didn't work so well. Dicky and I went over the last mountain together sharing stories while keeping each other honest. I got a gap on him through the last rocky section and then the finish, ouch!!!

Cresting "Soul Crusher"

It was an amazing day of racing with some serious elevation gain. Riding up those mountains on the single speed has taken its toll on my poor lil legs and knee's. I am useless as we speak fan. I have to say I am impressed with all the hardy souls that participated. As I was chilln' licking my wounds and sipping some tasty ale around 9pm folks were still coming in with their lights bright and their smiles brighter. That was awesome and what this event is all about for so many, seeing what you can do with your abilities. Sometimes we macho "elite" racer lose sight of that as we are too busy looking to beat this guy or gal or this or that...blah blah type A shit.

Happy Tired Couple

I am hurting today but I will be back next year pho-sure!!! I was able to muster up the strength to do a 20 minute spin, my legs are happy but my booty and the adjoining parts are not.

Happy, happy, joy,joy!!!

Team Bi-atch Results
Betsy: 3rd: mega flats
Gunnar: 1st SS 15th overall and still old as coal
Me, Chris: 2ndSS 19th overall, 2 flats


Shout out and stuff:

1. Chris Scott, Shenandoah Mountain Touring and the whole crew: you treated us all so great

Thanks Chris

2. JR for coming out to cheer us on.

3. Gunnar great ride.

4. And to all that rode. Whether you did a sub 8 hour ride or made it in after 14 hours we all did it and that is the important thing.

Ahh alas, the marathon's are over for the season. One more serious WVMBA race then it's business casual for a few weeks until cross. And if cross does not go well early on well then it will be a business casual cross season too.

As always...
Get out there ride, have fun and ride some more. It is cathartic ya know...better then _______ I have heard.